and accident forgiveness if you qualify. see what else comes standard at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? if wendy davis laces up her running shows, how far can she get in the lone star state? the sweeping anti-abortion bill was filibustered by wendy a davis took a major step towards passage this week. davis and her allies succeeded in using the filibuster to run out the clock on a special legislature session and rick perry turned around and called a brand-new special session. began this week and last for podays and on wednesday a committee passed the vote. now it's on its way to the house

floor for a vote next week. this was not ordinary hearing. roughly 3,500 people showed up at the capital and 1,100 registered to testify. wendy davis addressed those thousands of supporters at a rally monday. >> let's remind governor perry that fairness is and always will be a fundamental texas value. it shouldn't be unusual for a public official to stand and fight for the men and women who elected them. it should be a job requirement. >> davis, who shot to national prominence, is considering a run for governor next year. the odds are long in texas for democrats haven't won statewide office in nearly two decades. meanwhile, perry, who is already texas' longest serving governor is going to announce on monday whether he'll seek an

unprecedented fourth term next week. perry up 14 points over davis in a hypothetical matchup and also up 12 points over republican attorney general greg abbott. i want to bring in congressional reporter with talkingpointsmemo.com and louis and senior adviser to the 2008 hillary clinton presidential amcane. l.j. williams founder of the public affairs and perry bacon jr., political editor at our sister site. i guess start with the question of rick perry. governor of texas really since it was the supreme court ruling in the bush/gore case in 2000 that made bush president and he is promising "an exciting announcement" about his fufer on

monday. >> i think it's the end of rick perry as governor. is it an exciting announcement? if he runs again, that is not exciting. i think most voters saw enough last time. even republicans to not be that excited about him running for president. how exciting wendy davis is right now. i don't think she'd win, but a worthwhile campaign would certainly be a campaign that drew national attention. >> what's interesting when you look at it. we talked about the ppp poll that came out this week. what is interesting to me about it the filibuster and special session and helped wendy davis and rick perry. rick perry is up 14 points over wendy davis and polled head-to-head with her a couple months ago and only up six. this caused republicans to rally around rick perry in texas. his approval rating is now 81 to 16% in texas. at the same time, wendy davis is single the most popular political figure in texas. she has the best favorable,

unfavorable score. overall it helped wendy davis. showed up rick perry with the republican base. >> absolutely. look, two very different styles of political leadership here. here is rick perry whose reputation rests on two things. he could not remember his own three-point plan when running for president. he got two out of three, probably not enough. willing to shut off health care. to show how tough he is, he is going to shut off health care and people who need those clinics. that's rick perry. wendy a tavs who stands up alone against the forces of the state who speaks for 13 hours. try to take her down because she had to put on a back brace. here's the irony, we care about the women's health and then they want to penalize her for using a brace. she is the new face of texas politics. she doesn't get elected next

year, she will get elected. >> do you think she'll run next year for governor? >> as i understand it, they're going to try to take her seat away. >> her legislative seat. >> she may not have a legislative seat. if she were to ask me and i see no reason why she would. but my guess is she would run and she would do well and may not be enough this time, but it is coming. as i say, she's the new face of politics. >> another thing that is interesting to me in this poll, joy. we look at texas as conservative state, republican state. right now still a republican state. when you poll the question of abortion and sort of broadly speaking in texas. probably more pro-life sentence than pro-choice. when you filter it through the debate they just had had and ask specifically about sb5. that's actually more unpopular now in this poll than popular. so, sort of the theater and the attention that wendy davis drew to the issue and the way she

drew attention to it seems to change the way people think about the issue in texas. >> her method and her politics, that is what is more effective, right? it is taking away what messaging from either side and getting to the real meat of the question. even in the polls, if you ask the question differently, then people have a different response. if you ask them about choice, they're for that. if you ask about restricting abortion or striking down roe v. wade, they're wait, no, wait, that's not what i meant. >> of all the issues, abortion is the toughest one. >> that's the thing. as many people believe the should be this individual choice. people don't believe in restricting people's choice when you get down to it. you can manipulate polls, but fundamentally people believe that particularly this legislation and legislation across the country and other states, rather. the way they are framing the conversation is if you are

anti-baby. and that's not it. i think what wendy davis does is sort that out and i'm not talking about talking points, how this will fundamentally affect your lives and women's lives. and that's the new face of politics. >> the expectation in this special session, this will, this bill will become a law. it will pass and be signed. what is the effect of that sign? it's interesting how national democrats have rallied around wendy davis and made her one of their featured causes for the last few weeks. national republicans have not been as eager to rally around rick perry. >> well, rick perry seems to have cracked the code in texas. he figured out how to stay governor for longer than anyone else. if he wants it the next time, he probably has it. on a national level, very different. he might run for president, again. it's not clear. if he does, who knows what will happen.

he did not impress and come close to impressing last time. i think the really interesting thing about this filibuster and wendy davis phenomenon, they're ready for a strong voice. it helped rick perry, as well, because the filibuster has helped him grandstand about the life of the unborn and we're not done fighting and all this stuff. >> there seems to be a difference to me. where he's doing what the republican base clearly wants, but there seems to be, i'm reading the hesitancy of national public leaders to get involved with this. >> on the house level, they passed the 20-week abortion bill. >> they're not supporting rick perry, but supporting the issue. >> i think republicans on a national level are aware this is not the kind of battle they want to be picking. one house republican said this is a stupid idea, i'm not sure what my leadership is doing. >> they are proliferating at the state level. >> the republican committee earlier this year spent several

million dollars on a report what do we do to recover from this loss and they said, gee, we have young people and we really need to reach out to these new voters. you just look what perry single-handally is doing. they spent a lot of money to get advice that the republicans state by state do not want to accept and they're going their own way. >> to their point, steve, just in going back to 2012. look, we were 53% of the electorate, this is women, right? obama won by 11 points and they won single women, i think it was 36% that obama won. but this is from the growth and opportunity to report that was brought up. >> the autopsy -- >> right. this is their quote regarding women. republicans need to make a better effort at listening to female voters, directing their policy proposals what they learn from women and indicating they understand. clearly, they did not read that part of the report.

>> gunmakers firing back at progun control politicians. that's after this.

two weeks ago on the show we discussed rick perry's effort to convince gun manufacturers to pack up and move to texas. so far no connecticut gunmakers have taken governor perry up on his offer, although one connecticut company did strike a deal with south carolina to move there. and now barrettausa is looking to expand its operations outside of maryland. being wooed by leaders from several states and flatly ruled out two of them this week. they would not expand in west virginia, because of senator joe manchin's push to expand background checks on gun purchases and turning down rhode

island an executive wrote "the consistency with which a given state has supported second amendment rights." the company says it is still considering seven other states for its planned expansion. a big delay. i'm already reading the tease and i shouldn't be. that's what happens when you try to do the show with the flu. the back stream in this is maryland and martin o'malley passed the restrictions on assault weapons and restrictions on magazines and barretta started making noise, we don't want to be in maryland any more. so, manchin put in a call saying, hey, if you're not happy in maryland consider going to texas. so, it is interesting to me here because it seems like he is trying to have it both ways. he is taking this genuinely

where politicians stand on gun control and at the same time try to steal gun jobs from maryland, if the governor tries to act too boldly there. >> he is taking a pretty modest gun control position. he is not a grab all your weapons. went from a plus to b minus. but he took a radical view. if you ask joe manchin, used to be the governor of west virginia, of course. he is trying to bring jobs into the state and national figure in the future. he wants to bring in jobs in the state and also raise money and also wants to appeal to this modest gun control because he has now, as well. so, i think he's not really, i think the gun manufacturers see it differently, but not a contradiction between what he's doing on these issues. >> the voice of sanity. the vast majority of gun owners support what he's doing. harm a manufacturer like

beretta. he's just expanding them to gun shows. so, what beretta is doing now is just sort of being a little melodramatic and being aggre aggressive and no defense quite like a good offense. >> but part of it, too, i guess one of the reports i read said that back in 2000 when the clinton administration, they were able to get an agreement, not through legislation, they were an agreement on gun safety measure and blow back against the gun manufacturer through the market of gun buyers who said you're selling out sort of second amendment means a lot to them and maybe a little positioning on market posturing. >> a few people from within on the manufacturing side who saw a chance to score points. so, here's joe manchin who is being a straight, stand-up guy. was a plus with the nra and tried to make a modest change

and what does he do? he is now getting attack. one the nra trying to send a messa message, you can't disagree with them in the slightest. on the other hand, i think a lot of his colleagues in the senate are going to look at this and say, a guy trying to do the right thing and doing something that is basically popular and that may cost the nra eventually. you can't keep insisting of elected officials that they do that 1,000% obedient school every time. >> particularly since this is something the nra supported in the past, as well. so, they've changed, but you're not allowed to change. it is just really hard to be an adult and a legislative adult. >> but i wonder, the thing with machin. there should be room in this for the sensible pro-gun position that says i'm pro-gun and believe in some restrictions. at a certain point here, you

look at what martin o'malley did in maryland and what dan molloy and andrew cuomo in new york where they did sweeping gun control measures in the wake of newtown in the last few months and whether it's rick perry in texas or whether it's joe manchin making a phone call to the gun manufacturers, he is undercutting the work of other courageous democrats on the gun control issue by trying to lure jobs from his state. >> my suspension the connecticut, maryland, new york have higher texas on businesses than texas does. i'm almost certain of that. we're only talking about his economics. companies don't move for protest reasons. i don't like the governor, he didn't smile at me correctly. so, i suspect the gun manufacturers will come for tax reasons and they'll say it's because gun control laws in maryland, but i know maryland has fairly high tax rates and manchin playing both sides of this? yes, he is. is martin o'malley in a better

place? opposed to these kind of guns not being used, you wouldn't want them in your state. this is more about economics than it is about policy. >> it doesn't make a whole lot of sense because nothing manchin is doing would apply to west virginia. nothing he is doing would apply to handguns. >> yes, you're right about the martin o'malley who is my governor. we have had governors step up to the plate and we're all the better for it. >> it is interesting to see we have the warning example from connecticut. they're not talking about moving from maryland. if we expand in the future, maybe it will be somewhere else. a big delay for an important part of obama care draws fire from republicans, after this. lots of options, huh? i can help you narrow it down. ok thanks. this one's smudge free. smudge-free. really? and this one beeps when you leave the door open. upgrade your laundry room and kitchen appliances during red white and blue savings.

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their workers with coverage or pay a penalty will now go into effect in 2015, instead of 2014. the administration says the delay is due to the complexy of the rules reporting requirement and the need for more time to implement them. "we recognize the vast majority of businesses that will need to do this reporting almost provide insurance with their workers and want to make sure it is easy for others to do so." a liberal economist who used to work in the administration warns the delay could come at a great public cost. the employer mandate wrote on tuesday, "employees who currently provide coverage to their workers could drop the coverage and send over to the state health care exchanges. subsidies to fray the cost. employer would be shifting what is now a private cost over to the government." called the employer mandate delay another reason why obama care should be repealed.

"it is a clear immediate mission by the administration that the health care law is unaffordable, unworkable and unpopular." want to bring in representative frank palone and the ranking member of the congress committee in the house and new jersey special election this summer. congressman, thanks for joining us. >> thanks. >> you were part of crafting this law and one of the biggest things i have been hearing this week is the employer mandate was probably the worst individual component of this law in terms of how it was constructed. do you agree with that? >> i think it's a good thing and the republicans are making much of it, because, basically, as you know, they want to repeal the whole thing. but the fact of the matter is that most employers, you're talking larger employers now do provide health insurance and it really was just done. this delay is just being done because of the reporting requirements. i don't think it has much of an impact other than that.

the republicans will use it to say, we should reverse the whole thing and repeal the whole thing. i keep saying the republicans have to work with us on this health care law. it is the law of the land and not going to be repealed. may have to be some changes or delays or whatever, but that's what happens when you have major legislation that has such a major, positive impact on the american people. >> just to understand the employment issue a little bit. there was a difference, the house law that was passed and the senate bill, a key difference on how the employer mandate was treated and the senate bill, which was ultimately adopted which is now the law and disincentives that the house bill didn't contain originally. >> we were always concerned between the house and the senate about once there was an employer mandate what the penalty would be and how much that penalty would be. but the fact of the matter is, most large employers do provide health insurance. if someone isn't getting it through their employer, they go

on the exchange and get a subsidy and it will be affordable and it really hasn't changed that much in terms of what actually happens prablthically because of this del delay. >> there is this interesting dynamic when the law was passed, it is imperfect and require tweaking and adjustment over the years. the republicans had 38, 39, 40 repeal votes in the house. that's where they are. it is repeal or nothing. there is no tweaking or working around it. you take an issue like the employer mandate and if you still have republicans controlling the house, you will have to implement this thing, if you consider it flawed, you will have to implement it at some point. anyway it could be tweaked at all legislatively? >> the republicans realize they're not going to help and not do anything to make this law better. their attitude is we want this law to fail and collapse like a house of card so we can be standing there saying we told you so the whole time.

find ways to fix or tighten up some of the screws and plug some of the holes on their own, that would make the laws go a lot more smoothly and make it more likely to succeed in the long run. they hate this provision and they also hate the obama administration is delaying it because it makes it harder for them to sabotage the law if they can administratively fix some of the problems with it. >> how much can republicans with this posture undermine the implications? >> they are really trying. that's striking. the message from the republican, no. it's not we can do it better and we can have better ideas and, no, we want to repeal the whole thing. you're looking at a law where right now we have tens of thousands of people on their parent health care and we have young people with healthications who are now getting insurance that couldn't get conditions before. women are now getting preventive care, like mammograms, like cervical cancer tests. all of that has gone into effect

and by this fall, more and more will be in effect and the republican position does not change. it is repeal the whole thing. take it back. you know, try to take away better health care for americans, ultimately, is not going to be a winning political position. >> right now what we are hear from republicans, this is as we heard from grasso, right, the first sign of many that this is just a failure. how do you think? how does the average american, you look at the polling on this, sort of all over the place. people are still trying to figure out what this law is and isn't. >> badly for the law itself. i think it's harder if people are confoused by it and negativ impacts, too. most americans get health care through their employer. this is not a big deal and they dont know it's helping them, that's the problem, politically. the challenge is the white house wants to get more and more

americans sign up. and the challenge of that becomes more people hear bad news about the law, will they sign up. this actual issue doesn't affect many people at all, but the perception problem is more of a reality if they can't message better on this issue. >> i can remember in massachusetts when they implemented romney care. the red sox or red sox involved in the community outrage. and i know it last week the republican leadership in congress sent a memo to the commissioners of the special sports league, don't do that. ward them off on that kind of implementation. anyway, congress let student loan rates double this week. now what? that's next. what if we took all this produce from walmart and secretly served it up in the heart of peach country. it's a fresh-over. we want you to eat some peaches and tell us what you think. they're really juicy.

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congress on monday allowed interest rates on student loans

to double. lawmakers in both parties have promised to lower the rate for students with financial need before they borrow for the coming school year. 27 million students are expected to take out these loans in the fall, so far competing plans from congressional republicans and democrats and even president obama led to a legislative stalemate. senate is expected to vote on wednesday to take up a democratic plan to retroactively extend interest rate for another year, but likely to face a republican filibuster. the average student taking out a subsidized stafford loan will see total interest payments rise from $2,400 to $5,000. that averages out to $2,600 over the life of a normal ten-year loan. the average recent college grad is already $27,000 in debt. i know, little something from personal experience how that feels.

you cover this stuff. we've been down this road before. last year they came up with a one-year extension and here we are we have the senate vote coming up on wednesday. any optimism that before the start of the school year there is going to be some sort of agreement? >> it is an issue that both sides strongly believes needs to be fixed and no one wants to anger young voters. the question is how it gets done and it's far from clear how it will happen. senate democrats will vote on a bill wednesday to extend the current rate for a year and republicans will filibuster it. unique and complicated because at the heart of this there is a rare and policy split between democrats and the white house and the way the president introduced his student loan fix in the 2014 budget. last year was campaign season, so, democrats were way out ahead on this. they had machines running and mitt romney over a barrel and mitt romney sided with the president over congressional republicans. the issue was settled very comfortably and very easily.

this time is different. keep pointing to president obama's plan to tie the loan rate to the market and congressional democrats, i believe, are not so fond of that idea. >> what do you make of that dynamic then when you have the white house philosophically in line with the house republicans on that issue? >> i think the white house is looking at a long-term plan and i don't like the president's plan, but i think what we really have to do now, steve, is just roll this back to the 3.4. i'd like to see it for two years, but if it is one year, whatever. this is a lot more money for these kids and they just can't afford it. you and i, obviously, had student loans. getting increasingly difficult. you need work study and student loans and grants and scholarship and the congressional republicans have pushed back on all of that. bunlts cut back on work study, pell grants and student loan interest rates, they want to raise it. just more and more difficult for

kids to go to college. i think let's at least roll this back to the 3.4% for a year or two and then figure out long-term what the formula will be. right now i don't want to see this double and we have to do this retroactively before the school year. >> some studies that shown that the student loan programs they provide assistance to people and also encourage tuition hikes. some issues with the sort of the idea of the student loan program which isn't to say it hasn't done wonderful things and what caught my eye this week is what is happening in oregon. in oregon a pilot program being launched that basically the idea is to get to a place for public universities in oregon and no tuition and no loans. if you go, basically agreeing to pay back a fixed portion of what you earn over 10, 15, 20 years over a certain portion of your career. basically investing in you and you'll pay them back on what you earn coming out of it. >> they call it pay it forward. basically go tuition free and

with the promise that post-graduation 3% of your pay check would contribute for other students to do the same thing. the problem that they're having, they have to come up with is about $9 billion for start-up costs for the program. so, how do they get the funding from that? i think with a combination sort of using some young people and some ingenuity and hacking and sort of coming up and fund-ra e fund-raising for some of it and getting funding from government institutions. it's a real innovative way to address the problem and i think that's the issue. as a country, we have to decide, you know, how are we going to be able to fund students to be able to go to college? becoming increasingly difficult to get a job without a college degree and this is a big part of our economy going forward. putting the rate back for two years so we can really come to the table and come up with a comprehensive solution on how we are able to provide students the money necessary to go to college. and i think you're right.

those providing the money necessary for kids to get loans, your tuition shoots up. i look at hofstra where i went and the amount of tuition, i wouldn't be able to afford that. i think as a country we have to decide and change our model on how we're going to fund college and how we're going to be able to fund that. there is both the private responsibility and i don't think we have done a great job as a country looking at what the country has to contribute. in reality, having a college graduate, it's contribute to our economy largely. >> if i could just introject. part of it is that the federal government is not making the investment in higher education. so, you know, tuition goes up because the federal government is not providing money, you know, for repairing schools, for research at universities. so, you know, we need to make an investment in education

otherwise the college tuition will continue to go up and then the student loan crisis becomes even more of a crisis. we're not doing that. >> we're not, even in the student loan conversation, we're not even talking about if you've seen in the past couple of weeks hbcus and sort of how the changes in the loan program has affected the students going to historically black colleges. typically have been able to afford and qualify for those loans and now not even qualifying for that. that is putting undue harm on the colleges and universities that were able to accept these students in the past. we need a fundamental change overall. >> bigger issues. but we're stuck on the 6.8 versus the 3.4. courts weighed in on gay marriage and now it's congress' turn, maybe. that's next. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve unlimited rewards.

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after last week's historic supreme court ruling both sides of the gay rights battle have mobilized in response. senate committee set to vote

wednesday and democratic congressman jerry nather of new york is pushing ahead with his respect for marriage act. repeal all the remaining parts of doma and said in a court ruling "a majority of americans now favor marriage equality. representatives should do the same." reintroducing a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage nationwide. he admitted on "meet the press" that the odds are against him. >> our founders made it difficult to amend the constitution and that's what we're going to try to do. >> the best way to start here, poll from "usa today" a week ago and record support nationwide as these rulings are coming down. 55% support and 40 oppose. if you go back a decade, not sure you would have 30 supporting it.

le legislatively right now, you have two main issues and that is the employment nondiscrimination act and it got within one vote of the senate passage in 1996 and then the full repeal doma and the section that left untouched by the court if state x has gay marriage than does state y have to acknowledge that gay marriage. if you repeal doma correctly, have to recognize gay marriage. when you look at those two. a much better chance of getting through this congress right now. >> get to the senate, for sure. my understanding and my view of it. if you look at the polls, though, still only about 25%, 30% of republicans support gay marriage. the thing you can get to, i think you see the house of representatives moving through a bill that looks like gay rights right now and not where the house of republicans are right now. they're trying to issue careful statements saying they condemn the supreme court ruling and

then talk about the economy. they don't want to deal with this issue and, therefore, it's hard for me to see a bill on the floor of the house of representatives in the next two years. >> republican-controlled house. you look at the respect for marriage act, completely repealed doma, we mentioned. three republicans signed on to this. so, there are three republicans out of 235, whatever it is. do you, do you pick up a sense from republicans down there at all that there would be any openness in the house to a respect from marriage act and to something? >> i was one of the 67 members of the house who voted against it from the beginning. but this notion that is really the tea party and the right wing of the republicans in the house that just totally reposed to marriage equality and gay marriage. for moral or ideological reasons opposed to it. i just think you have to make a practical argument, try to reach

out to some more main stream republicans and say, certain states recognize this. the supreme court now says that, you know, the federal government can't discriminate and they do have to recognize it. and, so, we should get rid of at least all the vestiges of doma and i support the marriage act because if a state does recognize it and someone gets married and they move to another state, they should be able get their federal benefits and be treated any differently. the court basically said that the federal government has no business dictating to states who gets married. and i think that if we can, if we can get some main stream republicans and make that point, then we can get the respect for marriage act passed. >> i see that one personally as being a tougher sale to republicans because republicans from staunchly anti-gay marriage states, you know, well, you have to take new york's gay marriage and illinois and if and when they have it.

but take us through. on wednesday we're going to have a vote in the committee mark kirk republican from illinois on this committee and lisa murkowski is also on this committee. if this thing gets through the committee with two republicans voting on it, what happens next? >> democratic leaders try to push it to the floor. negotiate a deal to at least get a vote to override the filibuster. a decent chance it gets out of the senate. what happens then is it will probably die in the house because republican leaders have a leave us alone attitude. after doma they issued all the necessary, we wish the supreme court would uphold it, but the very clear subtext to their message there was, leave us alone. don't look at a us on doma and don't look at us to pass a program. >> remember, an election coming up. what republicans, particularly on that side in the house want to have on their record, you know, that they have this vote

and that's something that can be used against them in a primary or any other situation. i think, like you said, a good chance of passing the senate and it gets to the house. >> it is the thing we keep coming back to on every piece of legislation, almost fear of the republican primary challenge. okay, nothing is going to happen. >> all three of these items face long odds. what they're doing it win the senate in 2014, after this. and when we're sitting in traffic, i worry i'll have an accident. be right back. so today, i'm finally going to talk to my doctor about overactive bladder symptoms. [ female announcer ] know that gotta go feeling? ask your doctor about prescription toviaz. one toviaz pill a day significantly reduces sudden urges and accidents for 24 hours. if you have certain stomach problems or glaucoma, or cannot empty your bladder, you should not take toviaz. get emergency medical help right away if your face, lips, throat or tongue swells. toviaz can cause blurred vision, dizziness, drowsiness,

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federal superpac spending is on track to shatter records. at this point, six months in generating $133,000. this time around arkansas and kentucky have already seen $1.1 million in independent group spending for the 2014 cycle, that's according to "huffington post" it is 11 times the number at this point two years ago. nationally expenditures have been dramatically increasing for the last three mid-term cycles. the sum has grown from $694,000

in 2006 to 4.6 million in 2010 and 11.5 million so far this cycle. the new reality of american politics many of them are concluding they can only fight fire with fire. so far this year six governors, three republicans, three democrats have signed bills raising campaign contribution limits. florida republican rick scott bumped contribution limits up from 500 to 3,000. in maryland, democrat martin o'malley approved an increase from 4,000 to 6,000. minnesota and arizona have also all raised their contribution limits this year. ann, i wonder, is that absent. live in this era of unlimited outside money, should we raise the individual limits like this? >> steve, i never thought i'd say this i cheer when i hear about the state limits going up, money raised according to those rules is limited in some extent.

it's open, it's public. we know what's going on. as compared to what the supreme court did in opening the door to basically invisible money, which is raised in huge chunks. so, i'm glad to see the governors doing it. i don't think we're going backward. we're not going it see less money being spent, we're going to see more. our best hopes is to have as much of it as possible out in the public. >> what do campaigns make, the super pac, on the one hand, if you are a campaign and super pac helping you, all this big money helping you, but there isn't supposed to be coordination and in a lot of cases that's cute and what do campaigns make of the super pac phenomenon? would part of them have unlimited contributions to the campaign or like having these outside groups? >> it depends on the values of the campaign and the candidate. for some getting the unlimited money and people spending

moneyen your race and you're the good guy and trying to push your message, it's good for you. outside people or whatever. for other people, their values say that i want to raise money honestly and i want it to be focused on people in the district and i don't want this. remember back in the obama's first race when super pacs were the first thing, he rejected and went to court on some of the super pacs even one i'm on the board of now. i didn't want this in this noncoordination. it really depends on the values of the candidates and the campaign. it could be helpful, particularly if you're a low candidate and the district you're running in doesn't have a lot of money to begin with. maybe your district and constituents don't have a lot of money. outside money would help to get your money across. for others, used in different ways. to get around the noncoordination thing, you hire somebody who knows somebody and in the history and they kind of know how the candidate and the

campaign thinks. so, a lot of loopholes that both the super pacs and other people can sort of go around. i think what we have to do is sort of have a larger conversation about money in politics and i think that's on both sides, whether it's republican or democrat and we have to have a conversation on this outside money and being owned by corporations or being owned by the single individuals with millions of dollars being able to proceed with an agenda. whether it's republican or democrat. >> we have a senate candidate right here and you've got your special, you have the democratic special election for that. five weeks away, middle of august in new jersey, see who turns out for that. have super pacs been playing a role at this? >> what i asked of my opponents is we eliminate super pacs by asking them to take a pledge that they would not participate or condone or allow the expenditures of super pacs to come in and have a process. this was done in massachusetts with elizabeth warren against

scott brown and they agree to the pledge. mayor booker has not agreed to the pledge and my fear is that, again, it's big money, corporate interest. not disclosed and if it does happen in our race, then it's going to just basically corrupt the political system. >> you mentioned mayor booker. you're running against cory booker, sheila oliver and cory booker, the mayor of newark. cory booker is a money machine. you have a lot of money in your congressional account, but you expect him to zoom past you. mark zuckerberg and facebook raising money for him. how realistic is it for you or somebody to compete in this race we're talking about a summer election. >> this is grassroots. direct contact with the voters is the most important thing. it's in the middle of august, a lot of people won't vote. the people who do vote will know the issues and find out about

the candidates. so, therefore, i think we should have the debates. mayor booker agreed to one. i have been knocking on doors and making direct voter contacts with phones and my field operation, you know, volunteers going out. what i don't want is this to be an election and this is the danger with the super pacs where all tv, 30-second spots, attack ads and whatever. that's the danger with the super pacs. a lot used for negative campaigning and mostly tv. you know, 30-second, one-second spots and doesn't allow for the direct contact with the voters. i'm not going to be part of that. i'm going to acknowledge who's helping me and show who is contributing to me and i want to do this directly with debates and public forums. >> my thanks, we're out of time for this hour, if mayor booker is listening and he wants to have that debate, we'll happily host it here. just got a challenger. who she is, after this.

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want to talk about the future of the senate democrats greatest nemesis, that's republican leader mitch mcconnell and here with ann lewis, msnbc contributor perry bacon jr. and white house correspondent buzzfeed.com. democrats finally have a senate candidate in kentucky. after months of courting, secretary of state launched her campaign in a hastily organized five-minute press conference in frankfort. >> i agree with thousands of kentuckians that kentucky is tired of 28 years of obstruction. >> next day the mcconnell campaign responded in an interesting way posting a rather unconventional web video targeting grimes. >> i want to thank me -- i want

to thank me. >> me. >> i want to thank. >> as i said, interesting. that video actually goes on for over a minute and a half. senate democrats are playing defense in 2014 mainly because they picked up so many seats back in 2008 when president obama won. out of the over one-third of the senate up next year compared to 14 seats for the republicans and most of the republican seats are in deep red gop territory. mcconnell himself is probably the most vulnerable republican up and grimes is the top recruit. in may a poll of kentucky showed mcconnell and grimes tied in a hypothetical matchup at 45% each. so, you know, there's sort of a legend of mitch mcconnell, i think, when it comes to kentucky politics. i went back and look, he got

elected with 49.9% of the vote. 52% in 1990. 55% in '96. won a big one in '02 with 65%. he almost lost in '08. his poll numbers in that state are not very good. this is a genuinely vulnerable guy in a conservative state. >> this is an unlikable guy. all the numbers show. in fact, the beginning of this year he was something like 55% in kentucky disapproved compared to 37% approved. there is irony here. a guy who first got elected in a very negative campaign against an incumbent senator. he has been a very negative minority leader in the senate. a guy who said his first goal was to make sure that barack obama was a one-term president. well, that has failed. perhaps we can now cap mitch mcconnell. he has been mr. no, dr. no. a referendum on how you feel about mitch mcconnell, he's in

deep trouble. >> that's interesting. famous mcconnell goal, make obama one-term president. actually, up to the voters, so, at a certain point, being the republican at the face has got to help you in some way in kentucky, but doesn't seem like mcconnell is getting much bang for his buck on that front. >> for all the vulnerabilities he does have. it look a long time for a democrat to get into this race. a lot of sort of excitement before allison grimes got in. we had the ashley judd thing and several democrats bowing out and some congress people there. so, i mean, it is a state where he is well known and he's been the senator for a long time and a state where running against obama the early indications are he's going to tie her to obama. >> i think that's a pretty safe bet. >> but, perry, what do we need to know about her?

>> she's 34 years old. secretary of state and pretty new to politics. she was first elected in 2011 and only served in office before this. the first race she won was secretary of state and person who runs the elections there. her father was very involved with the clintons and very involved for a long time. her father was the caterer to chelsea clinton's wedding. the big thing about her and talk with the press for a little bit. kentucky democrats forced ashley judd to get out of the race because they wanted grimes. the key thing about grimes is what she's not. she's not a liberal democrat. i can't tell what her views on obama care are. to the point in 2012 where someone asked her who she was for and she said i'm for our nominee. she wouldn't use barack obama's name because she knows how unpopular he is. you know that video, that recording mother jones got of

mcconnell aides privately. the mcconnell aides are talking about, oh, great, ashley judd so much to run against. with grimes, she was so smart. she never talks about obama in public and conceded her being a good politician in a way. she's avoided taking stands on any of the major national issues and that's why she's a great candidate for kentucky. hard to tag her to the national party versus ashley judd who talks about how how much she likes barack obama all the time. >> i think of the extent maybe that model could work. i think of heidi running for a state that went big for romney but in the senate race, a democrat was able to win it in sort of an upset. how long can realistically, how long can you run that way? i mean, biggest asset is not saying anything, can she do that for a year and a half? >> i understand why democrats want to put out ashley judd, i don't understand why mcconnell and republicans wanted to push out ashley judd.

as far as allison grimes go, she was easily democrats' top recruit and it is going to be a gruesome, uphill battle for her. mcconnell unpopular and may not be likable but very well funded and a shrewd, ruthless politician and a republican in a red state getting redder and redder running where democrats cannot devote. i would not underestimate them. >> a lot of local politics at play. mcconnell's argument out there. a guy who signed on to the ban on earmarks in 2010 is out there touting his earmarks, again, out there on the campaign trail. go out there and talk about i'm this front venture and i can bring you a lot of money. it's going to be a classic race in this way. >> the other thing about mcconnell. the senate conservative fund. the pact that was started by jim demint. this is what encourages the challenges. it got behind rand paul in

connecticut. so, the senate conservative fund is executive director this week said this about mitch mcconnell. the least electual senator running in 2014 and lose this race and cost the republicans the majority. needs to consider whether it is time to hang it up. hanging overall as we talk about grimes. but the question for a long time. is mitch mcconnell available to a challenge that groups will get behind? >> that's such an important point. remember mitch mcconnell, to put it mildly, was not for rand paul. he had a different candidate and he lost. didn't want to follow mitch mcconnell's advice. he is back up, again. he is trying hard. he has done literally everything, i think, except room with rand paul this year. >> has it worked, perry? is he safe from a primary challenge? >> he is not. definitely rumor of a primary challenge and he's not safe from

that. he tried to court paul very aggressively. running mcconnell's campaign, but even among conservatives, some ankest about mitch mcconnell. he's been there so long and also known in the state for picking winners and losers even among the republicans and using a lot of threats and sort of i'm in charge here and you're not. he's not beloved. he's feared, but not beloved. >> as he tried to pick the winner -- rand paul got in there. the other issue here that we want to talk about which ties into what president obama said on climate change recently and coal state and talk about coal and climate and the kentucky 2014 race after this.

the kentucky senate race next year may be the best

political test with the president's recent announcement on epa and regulating carbon emissions. let's listen to what the president had to say. he set this up. >> convince those in power to reduce our carbon pollution. push your own communities to adopt smarter practices. invest, divest, remind folks there is no contradiction between a sound environment and strong economic growth and remind everyone who represents you at every level of government that sheltering future generations against the ravages of climate change is a prerequisite for your vote. make yourself heard on this issue. >> that's how president obama frames with what he's doing regulate carbon from new and existing plants. this is how it's filtered through mitch mcconnell. this is what you'll hear from him and the next year and a half. >> creates a depression in central appalachia that is west virginia and eastern kentucky and also since we have a number

of automobile plants and a lot of auto supply plants in our state, it drives the costs of production. of parts and vehicles up. this is a huge step in the wrong direction. particularly in the middle of the most tepid recovery after a deep recession in any one's memory. >> i've been saying the democrats aren't going to pay much of a price because the places you have paid a political price have already largely abandoned them. here's one, perry, you talk about the best thing grimes can do is sort of separate herself from what obama is doing. do you think she's going to forcefully separate herself or find a way to support this? >> i talked to jesse mcconnell's campaign yesterday and he must have used the phrase war on coal ten times. that is the issue they're going to run on aggressively. grimes running against mcconnell has in the past been supported.

support from coal industry executives and obama's climate change plan and try to win that race. she will try to hug mcconnell as much as possible. coal is kind of a threshold issue and not going to elect a democrat in a state from there unless you have the right views on coal first. not going to vote for republican physical they're thinking about deporting their grandmother. no, you're not going to win a race without having the right views on coal. remember a couple years ago, joe manchin had the ad where he fired a gun through the cap and trade bill and grimes, i don't know what her shooting skills are, i suspect she'll do something similar. that speech could make a big difference. >> she needs, one thing she needs to beat mcconnell is money. i wonder how national democrats. will they think pragmatically. we want to take out mitch mcconnell or if she's out there doing the joe manchin thing, no, we're not going to give money to somebody like this. >> a democrat who did invest in

joe manchin think they really have a good senator there. i'm not sure that is a bad example. there's a threshold issue here. you don't get elected from the senate by any state saying i'm going to attack your industry. something you really care about. the key, however, for again the allison grimes or anti-mitch mcconnell campaign which is really what we're talking about here is, okay, she's got to be good enough on the existing industry and then what is it mitch mcconnell has done for appalachia and those folks living in central kentucky who are having so much economic trouble? he wants to brag about being in the leadership. he is at the front seat and makes things happen. what has he made happen? >> i will predict mcconnell's response. i stood up on the war on coal. what do you think of the resonance of that? >> i think it's a bright, shiny object. it's exactly what mitch mcconnell wants to run against. he wants to run against climate

change. so, president obama is giving him that. we talked about the one thing that people think about when they hear mitch mcconnell obstruction and that plays well in kentucky. a red state getting redder and they don't like president obama over there. this is exactly, to your point earlier, i think allison grimes is going to have a lot of flexibility to take some positions that national democrats and the white house don't hold. they tend to be very lenient and red states, you know, who aren't totally towing the line because they know they have to. >> so if the republicans make war on coal on the issue in this race and mcconnell still loses or he does lose, do you see how it affects how they affect going forward? does this have broader implications in this way? >> important to start out by saying the white house will not declare war on coal. this is a republican -- >> the republicans declared -- >> you know, i think that it

depends on how focused the democrats want to be on this. we saw with other issues when the cap and trade bill came up and still democrats were in control of the senate, it's a tough issue because it's expensive and it's hard to get people onboard with paying more for energy and things like that. so, i think that having a victory, democratic victory in kentucky would be easier for people who want to see climate change stuff happen. but there are broader questions about how to get that focus and get really fired up on it. >> i want to thank sahil kapur. an update on the latest in egypt, after this. with o ur " name your price" tool, people pick a price and we help them find a policy that works for them. huh? also... we've been working on something very special. [ minions gasp, chuckle ] ohhh! ohhh!

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new round of violence erupted in cairo between soldiers and supporters of mohamed morsi. reports early this morning say 30 were killed. the fighting capped off a momentous week on sunday began one year from the day morsi was sworn in. egyptians took to the streets calling for his removal from office.

morsi resisted on wednesday night the military moved in and took the demkraocratically elec leader into custody. stood on a stage flanked by the country's top political leaders and announced yet another interim government. a fast-changing situation in both cairo and washington. for more on the latest developments. want to bring in ahmen and nbc white house correspondent crister wecrist kristen wellker in washington. what is the latest in cairo? >> well, today life is getting slightly back to normal as people assess what happened yesterday in terms of the violence. still a lot of tension in the atmosphere as supporters of the ousted president mohamed morsi continue demonstrations outside headquarters and also in another cairo neighborhood. they'll continue their sit-in until their president is reinstated. in addition to other supporters are planning to continue their

marches and protests for the next several days to try to force the military to reverse course in ousting the former president. meanwhile, the country's new interim president is trying to form an interim cabinet that will run the day had--to-day af of the country and transitional period for the next year or so. the bigs news came overnight that more violence in other parts of the country. more than 30 people killed in various conferenrontation betwe pro-morsi supporters. it remains a very volatile situation across the country on hold. >> kristen, in washington, we say a fast-changing situation. although in washington or not, i'm not sure that is the case. a story from peter baker in "new york times" that says most of the top leaders in washington who have been quiet and reserved in publicly talking about this. if they're not happy about what's happening in egypt they're not happy about it.

is that an accurate assessment? >> that is an accurate assessment. washington is purposefully trying to create a little space right now between washington and what's happening in egypt. even saying that, look, this might be for the best. the obama administration has at times been quite skeptical of mohamed morsi's competence. so, they don't necessarily think this is a bad thing, what they're calling for is a return to a democratically elected government as quickly as possible and an end to the violence. admin stragistration officials e he will continue to get regular updates. what we are hearing is from the state department. we have a graphic of a report she released last night. "we condemn the violence that has taken place today in egypt. as president obama said, we expect the military to ensure

that the right of all egyptians are protected, including the right to peaceful assembly and we call on all who are protesting to do so peacefully." that is the chief concern that the violence in egypt comes to an end. the wording is important because you hear that focus on the military. right now the obama administration believes it is up to the military to make sure what we're seeing in the streets of egypt comes to a peaceful conclusion. i also want to make the point that the administration is walking a fine line when it comes to the issue of whether or not a coup has occurred in egypt. that is because if it is, in fact, determined that a coup has occurred, the administration would have to withdraw its aid that it currently gives to egypt. about $1.5 billion. right now sort of holding that over the heads of egyptians to force them to sort of end this violence. a sound bite from john mccain who says that a coup has occurred. >> i believe that we have to suspend aid to the egyptian

military because the egyptian military is overturned the vote of the people of egypt. >> so, steve, the white house watching what is happening quite closely, but, also, sort of creating some distance as they monitor developments. steve? >> i just want to bring you back in here for a second. obviously, the immediate issue in eegypt is the violence. the longer term issue is the future of democracy and it seems, i wonder what you're hearing because you have the muslim brotherhood that maybe sort of reluctantly came into the democratic system as it was created you know a little over a year ago and now the muslim brotherhood and lots of voices saying, hey, we tried, it failed and it seems to me a broader sort of almost regional wide concern here about the future of getting the groups like the muslim brotherhood to participate whether it's in

egypt or else where. >> right. definitely a few things at stake here. one, if you speak to the opposition in this country, they will tell you that the process that began with the ouster of the former president, hosni mubarak back in 2011 where they led that transitional process. that was a complete nightmare and a complete debacle and that paved the way for allows the muslim brotherhood without any clear checks and balances on their power. because they botched it the first time around, not fair and free democratic process. the muslim brotherhood are making the argument, well, you brought us on to this mix or brought us on to this board and we were part of the mix of politicians that participated in the elections and now that we won and had the chance to run our platform, you now have negated these elections. why would we participate in another one in case we were to win? what is the guarantee that we won't be ousted, once again? there is this now growing

concern among islamests in general that because this election was negated the military will always be a check on who comes into power and always undermine the ability of any democratic process that comes here in the years to come. >> my thanks in cairo and nbc kristen welker from the white house. gop goes after hillary clinton for being too old. that's next. i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪

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past march when mitch mcconnell, there he is, again, poked fun at the ages of both clinton and the ages of joe biden. >> don't tell me democrats are the party of the future when their presidential ticket for 2016 is shaping up to look like a rerun of the golden girls. >> that, by the way, is 70-year-old senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. hillary clinton will be 69 years old in 2016, which is the same age that ronald reagan, when he won in 1980. so, my instinct to say, well, you know, reagan, hillary clinton, that takes the issue off the table. i do remember dole and mccain certainly took grief for their ages. it does make you wonder a little bit how we think about age and politics. >> john mccain was 72 when he ran. biden will be 73 and hillary 69 and reagan in the second term was 73 when he was running for

re-election. i think it will be an issue. remember in '08 obama, he said something similar to what karl rove said about generation and i'm a part of a new republicgenl politics. therefore, i think it cuts away from the, she's too much of an old face. presidential face still. also, look at the senate and look at the supreme court. being 69, make her look young in washington politics. >> i just, look, in the second term i recall ronald reagan and the debate said i won't make my opponent's age an issue. look, this is just one more proof that republicans don't want to talk about policy. they don't want to talk about what they could do or would do. they only want to attack on age, economy and the kind of things on people's minds. hillary clinton as secretary of state put a real focus on helping united states business. she hired a chief economist in

the state department, hadn't happened before. a story recently this month. everywhere she went on a trip, she would try to squeeze in ways to help u.s. businesses and suggest she did more to help the u.s. economy in four years as secretary of state, than the republican senate has managed to do. so, yeah, she's got a record. people pretty much know how active and energetic, i would say. and forward looking she has been and we will see what happens next. >> i have this view, steve, that they have a big dry erase board and all these various options that they're going to try to throw out hillary, if she is, indeed, going to run. and i think just month by month trying whatever strategy. now with age and they're just going down the list. let's see what sticks. they don't really have, they don't really have a forward thinking proposal for the next term. and to put up and say, you know, against rand paul and the marco rubios and if they're trying to produce this younger generation

and this new generation, the country is not a chip and dale's catalog. >> they to that whole idea of pepsi, what is pepsi the choice of the new generation. that has sold in politics sometimes. gore came to office was generational. >> i think that new generation argument, age will be a factor but it will be about, can anybody under the age of 45 vote for a republican? they have to look at their own politics they're having. this is not coming from me. the college republicans did a scathing report about how their own party is able to attract young voters. i mean, if these guys will go out there, some guys like rubio who we'll talk about later and he's talking about getting the abortion ban wagon and rand paul has done social conservative stuff and made it kind of an off-color joke on the stump already. this is stuff that doesn't sell to young voters that well. that's the issue they're going to have to deal with. i think whether you can

characterize hillary as old or somebody else as somebody else, that's one thing. the republican party really has a hard time reaching out to youth, minorities and saying my candidate is younger than your candidate. >> i think as a strategist, also, in terms of focusing in on women, this would be a gold mine for me. you know, sort of other people you want to focus on age and how to connect that with other women who will go vote and say, don't you experience the same thing at your job? don't people ask you about your age if you're too old in terms of leading this company and in terms of moving things forward and being able to talk to women about the discrimination or bias we face on this. i love it, bring it on, let's talk about age. >> you mention the republican issue, we talked about their autopsy and that was one of the issues. gay marriage as a gateway issue for young voters and none of those names i mentioned support gay marriage and hillary clinton, does, although it took her a while to get there.

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senator marco rubio staked his political future on immigration comprehensive reform. a driving force behind the bill that cleared the senate a week ago. a recent media study shows rubio's name appears almost twice as often as the leading democrat on that bill. new york's chuck schumer. but that has produced some blow back on the right from rubio. here's a look where rubio's recent performance stands a june poll finds that 52% approve of rubio's handling of immigration reform while 24% disapprove. another poll of national republicans show rubio's favorability rating dipping from double digits down from 54% to 43% last month. but the republican establishment which generally wants to pass is now scrambling to give rubio some cover.

"new york times" reported on monday that major donors are coming to aid focusing on sections of the bill that republicans like. a group called the american action network is spending $50,000 to air this ad exclusively on fox news in florida. >> it's called the border surge. the toughest border security plan ever passed by congress. 700 miles of new fencing, 20,000 new border patrol agents, radon, night vision, even drones, ridden with border patrol agents and supported by conservative leaders like marco rubio, paul ryan and jeb bush. this is the tough border security america needs. call senator rubio. thank him for keeping his promise and fighting to secure the border. >> so, evan, rubio has been so interesting to watch on the immigration thing because of all the members of the gang of eight. he sent the most sort of wobbly signals. a bunch of times he threatened to walk away and behind the scenes he talked to people and rubio among the other members of

that who crafted that compromise than there was with anybody else. he stayed on board, they got this from the senate and reached this critical point right now where republicans in the house will sort of decide the future of immigration reform. when you say the republicans in the house, you mean the national conservative movement will decide it and what they think of rubio will have a lot to say about this. and think about rubio. what do you think they think of when they see rubio at this point? >> well, his path to where it is now is really fascinating. they had a tea party rally on the national, the capital recently and all these people who came and had supported rubio as the tea party candidate against charlie kristin 2010 are now upset with him was of the immigration thing. he's ingreigeiating himself to the establishment of the party that wants to see this pass and move off this issue, but he has a real hard time. there are a lot of conservatives that are upset. so, i think how it comes out. he is trying to play it very carefully, like you say. he didn't go to the press

conference after the bill passed. he didn't take the call. he is trying to sort of be on it and then also away from it. he is trying to balance. >> that ad isso intereis so int me. that term emerged using george w. bush's big iraq war thing. that compromise thrown into it on the last minute extra border security because nothing republicans seem to like more now than border security, border security, border security. >> that is the money the cbo told us increase national revenue by. so, the people working on the bill, the gang of eight very wisely said, okay, we'll devote some to border security. i'm fascinated watching this. watching the class struggle within the republican party. you're right. it's the upper class and the donors who are very big on immigration reform for writing that ad. i assumes it means paul ryan

will step forward and be a real leader in the house. i'm not so sure. the upper class, maybe the new version, but the drama here is within the republican party. >> and that tea party issue, too, evan mentions. tea party candidate when he ran for the senate in florida in 2010 and the tea party defines itself in opposition to the republican establishment. we have all these establishment groups pushing to prop up rubio. apparently this week george w. bush is going to emerge this coming week to speak out, he is, the tea party was sort of a rebellion against what bush did to the republican party, right? i wonder if this reignits what key felt in 2010. >> the tension is there. if you're marco rubio, he will sponsor the ban, that's a kin to an apology. i was on the left on this issue and now come to the right on something you care about a lot, as well. that's one thing they talk about him.

despite what we talk about all the time. if you look at mitt romney and john mccain the last two presidential nominees, not rick santorum and not someone, the more conservative. marco rubio has used, marco rubio used the tea party to help him get to where he is now. if he wants to be the nominee, it is smart to be comfortable and have the establishment really like you. that's what he's doing, as well. he wants immigration reform and he's the right face for it and smart politics for him, even if the bill fails ultimately in the house, not bad politics in terms of running for president. >> so you mention the 20-week abortion ban that he's now going to introduce in the senate. if that is sort of the price for him. i sort of abandoned the republican base on immigration to get back in their favor. this is the sort of thing i had to do. we talk about his, all of this is sort of rooted in his political ambition. maybe he helps himself on immigration but then any good he does with himself, the price he has to pay to the right with

that, he undoes it. >> the price he might have to pay for this will be a little higher. particularly as it talks to the larger percentage of voters, which is women. as we get to a presidential election, i think to have this record that you were the one that brought this bill to the house, whether or not it's going to pass or not, i think it's going to hurt him in the long run. i mean, it may sort of be something he can point to and say, look, i held this up. you know, i held the banner up, but i think at the long run, it will end up hurting him more. >> also a real litmus test for how he can communicate this issue. important issue to the republican base. they do want to talk about this. one thing they've seen often is when these republican start talking about this topic and they end up veering off into places that make them very unpopular and make their party look bad. we had the guy talking about the fetal -- >> first time that term has been used on this show.

thank you. >> you know, 9:00 in the morning, but check it off. but so if rubio can steer this ban and steer the discussion of this ban in a way that doesn't veer off into politically damaging rhetoric for the republican party, i think it could be a big plus for him with the base and how the establishment views him. this is a best test that people want to see if they can talk about this issue and they want to talk about and not blow up in their face. >> he is a good politician. rush limbaugh is criticizing him. he has not voted him off the island yet. rubio is playing all sides really well and i think that tells me on the abortion issue, as well. he probably has, he has a really good team behind it and got all these advisors that want to work for a presidential candidate and he has worked very well. >> if immigration forum does get through the house in some meaningful way, will rubio sign up at the signing ceremony?

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so what do we know now that we didn't know last week? we now know that one way to avoid a speeding ticket is to be driving your state's governor. that's what helped iowa state trooper steve lawrence avoid a ticket when he was driving iowa governor terry branstad back in april. according to audio recordings given to the associated press on tuesday, the vehicle was called in going, quote, a hard 90 by special agent in charge, larry headland. but when the troopers realized the car in question was the governor's, it was never pulled over. according to his lawyer, days after the incident, headland filed internal complaints against his department for the special treatment given to the governor and two days later he was placed on administrative leave. the governor who has made highway security a top priority says he was not aware of any chase or non-chase at the time.

we know that republican new york city mayoral candidate joe loda wants anyone who's dated anthony weiner to come forward. on monday, he made his pitch to women voters and weiner's ex on where else but conservative talk radio. >> women will have to decide for themselves -- >> i hope they wise up. >> -- after enough women come out and talk about what it was like to be with him and to date him and things like that. >> we know that weiner's very public past hasn't kept him from running at or near the top in recent polls. and if anything does derail him, it probably won't be this. thanks to john campbell at gannet's albany bureau, we now know that andrew cuomo has shown an unusual communication for nonessential punctuation. whether he's signing publication or a large check, he likes to add a rather noticeable exclamation point to his

official signature. weapon don't know if cuomo is planning to run for president in 2016, but past presidential candidates have used similar punctuation. lamar alexander used an exclamation point on his campaign signs, buttons, and pins in 1996 and 2000. one popped up on some of hillary clinton's signs during her 2008 run. also in her senate run in 2000. so given the track record of this specific tactic, it's uncertain whether enthusiastic punctuation translates into enthusiastic votes. maybe it will work for cuomo. question mark? finally, despite all the recent coverage surrounding comfort food guru paula deen's use of racial slur, her public standing hasn't completely collapsed, at least in texas. a poll found that she had a favorability rate ing of 46% in the state. that is higher than the favorability rate for both of the state senators. and also, 42% of texans don't think that governor rick perry

should run for president in 2016. want to find out what my guests know now that they didn't know when the week started? we'll begin with you, ann. >> well, webb that sometimes government can work, although the news gets buried sometimes with the many, many examples where it doesn't. but this week, stattenator barb mikulski says she has a bipartisan deal to improve and upgrade the weather computers. we found out that we were running behind. in fact, europe has computers that told us more information than we have. so senator mccullski puts some more money in the budget. as of this summer, our computers will be three times as fast. they'll be even more in the next year, and she says that's going to save jobs, save lives. that's what government should be about. >> did not know that. that's what this segment is supposed to be about. barry? >> we now know that demographics are not actually destiny. last year, one thawed after obama won, immigration reform would certainly past. but a group of republicans have emerged this week that argued

no, the party can win if they increase the number of white voters up to 70% instead of 60%. we now know that demographics are not shaping this debate and the house republicans may vote down immigration reform and feel very comfortable with it. >> we are going to be having a discussion about that tomorrow, so stay tuned. >> evan? >> on this independence week, i think we have learned something interesting from the polls, that americans are really happy with their country, was aren't sure the guys who started the country would be happy with it. there's a poll going around the conservative blogasphere that shows 85% of americans are proud to be americans, but 70% think founding fathers will be disappointed on how the country turned out. an interesting sort of discussion about our history and where we are now and, you know, what it means politically. it's a big discussion in the conservative media atmosphere. >> and as my other hat, i was outraged this week that the new york city board of elections randomly found 1,600 votes that were not counted in brooklyn for the presidential election, which they found and counted and added to the overall tally. we have a real problem.

we have this big mayoral election, we're going back to lever machines, which i don't think a lot of people in the city know. and then we'll go back to optical machines, because they can't have -- they don't have the money, they don't have the amount of time to be able to count the votes in between that time. we haven't figured out how to count votes and how to make sure that people can actually cast them. >> 1,600 uncounted votes. i think i hear karl rove say, hey, it's still not over! my thanks to ann lewis, former senior adviser to hillary clinton, msnbc contributor perry bacon jr., evan mcmorris-s mcmorris-santoro, and l. joy. thanks for getting up and thanks for joining us today for "up." join us tomorrow on sunday morning at 8:00 where aisle have dave weigel and the democratic nominee running against chris christie, state senator barbara buono. and coming up next is "melissa harris-perry," with a closer look at conservative's new war on women and why women of color could help turn the tide.

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[ french accent ] antacid! sorry, i have gas. but you relieve gas, no? not me... that's his job. true. i relieve gas fast. [ male announcer ] gas-x is designed to relieve gas. gas-x, the gas xpert. this morning, my question. will a trial of george zimmerman show how post racial we aren't? plus, the portrayal of black women in reality shows and film. and advice from the extraordinary merly evers on how to protect voting rights. but first, it's nerdland from new orleans! good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry, live from the essence festival in my home citf